Template:Two L1 Systems - Revision history

ST at 12:26, 22 September 2024

2024-09-22T12:26:24Z

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	{{Model II icon}}{{Model 1S icon}}{{Compact icon}}		{{Model II icon}}{{Model 1S icon}}{{Compact icon}}{{L1 Pro icon}}
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	;Introduction		;Introduction

ST: Reference to dual mono

2019-03-27T14:54:15Z

Reference to dual mono

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:54, 27 March 2019
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	;Introduction		;Introduction
	: This discussion pertains to using two {{L1}} systems with the same sound source (~~dual mono~~). For a discussion about stereo see [[Stereo / Mono / Distributed Systems]]		: This discussion pertains to using two {{L1}} systems with the same sound source ([[:Dual Mono]]). For a discussion about stereo see [[Stereo / Mono / Distributed Systems]]

	;What is the benefit of using two {{L1}} systems over one?		;What is the benefit of using two {{L1}} systems over one?
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	; How much gain do you get when you run two {{L1}} systems with the same source?		; How much gain do you get when you run two {{L1}} systems with the same source?
	: Short answer +3 dB in practice		: Short answer: +3 dB in practice

	; +6 dB in theory		; +6 dB in theory

ST at 14:52, 27 March 2019

2019-03-27T14:52:08Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:52, 27 March 2019
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	{{Model II icon}}{{Model 1S icon}}{{Compact icon}}		{{Model II icon}}{{Model 1S icon}}{{Compact icon}}
	<div style="max-width:800px">		<div style="max-width:800px">
			;Introduction
			: This discussion pertains to using two {{L1}} systems with the same sound source (dual mono). For a discussion about stereo see [[Stereo / Mono / Distributed Systems]]

	;What is the benefit of using two {{L1}} systems over one?		;What is the benefit of using two {{L1}} systems over one?
	: You will get more coverage (based on the distance between the {{L1}} systems) and an increase in loudness (but not double the loudness)<ref name=loudness>[http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-levelchange.htm Loudness level gain volume perception dB factor volume conversion ...]</ref> .		: You will get more coverage (based on the distance between the {{L1}} systems) and an increase in loudness (but not double the loudness)<ref name=loudness>[http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-levelchange.htm Loudness level gain volume perception dB factor volume conversion ...]</ref> .

ST: text width

2019-03-27T14:49:30Z

text width

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			{{Model II icon}}{{Model 1S icon}}{{Compact icon}}
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	;What is the benefit of using two {{L1}} systems over one?		;What is the benefit of using two {{L1}} systems over one?

ST at 14:41, 27 March 2019

2019-03-27T14:41:24Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:41, 27 March 2019
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	; How much gain do you get when you run two {{L1}} systems with the same source?		; How much gain do you get when you run two {{L1}} systems with the same source?
	: Short answer +3 dB		: Short answer +3 dB in practice

	; +6 dB in theory		; +6 dB in theory
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	; Is +3 dB twice as loud?		; Is +3 dB twice as loud?
	: No		: No
	*Doubling the power (+3 dB)is '''not''' twice as loud.		*Doubling the power (+3 dB)is '''not''' twice as loud.
	*A non-exact rule-of-thumb is that every 10 dB increase is a doubling of perceived loudness. <ref name=loudness></ref>		*A non-exact rule-of-thumb is that every 10 dB increase is a doubling of perceived loudness. <ref name=loudness></ref>

ST: removed B1 specific references

2019-03-27T14:39:15Z

removed B1 specific references

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:39, 27 March 2019
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	* Sound waves add in space through the principle of [https://www.acs.psu.edu/drussell/demos/superposition/superposition.html superposition]. If the waves from two sources perfectly add, you get twice the amplitude, which is +6 dB.		* Sound waves add in space through the principle of [https://www.acs.psu.edu/drussell/demos/superposition/superposition.html superposition]. If the waves from two sources perfectly add, you get twice the amplitude, which is +6 dB.

	* To get the full +6 dB the two sources have to be spaced very closely together relative to a wavelength of sound. at 50 Hz, where the wavelength of sound is about 20' (about 7 meters) that's pretty easy to do. Massing your B1 bass modules is done for this reason -- to get the 6 dB per doubling of B1 systems. But at 1,000 Hz, where the wavelengths are 12 inches (about 30 cm) you just can't do get L1 speakers close enough. As a result, you get something less than 6 dB because at some angles instead of the sound waves constructively adding they will destructively cancel (one will be partly or completely out of phase with the other).		* To get the full +6 dB the two sources have to be spaced very closely together relative to a wavelength of sound. at 50 Hz, where the wavelength of sound is about 20' (about 7 meters) that's pretty easy to do. Massing your bass modules is done for this reason -- to get the 6 dB per doubling of bass module systems. But at 1,000 Hz, where the wavelengths are 12 inches (about 30 cm) you just can't do get {{L1}} speakers close enough. As a result, you get something less than 6 dB because at some angles instead of the sound waves constructively adding they will destructively cancel (one will be partly or completely out of phase with the other).

	; +3 dB in practice		; +3 dB in practice

ST at 14:37, 27 March 2019

2019-03-27T14:37:34Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:37, 27 March 2019
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	<div style="max-width:800px">		<div style="max-width:800px">
	;What is the benefit of using two {{L1}} systems over one?		;What is the benefit of using two {{L1}} systems over one?
	: You will get more coverage (based on the distance between the {{L1}} systems) and an increase in loudness (but not double the loudness).		: You will get more coverage (based on the distance between the {{L1}} systems) and an increase in loudness (but not double the loudness)<ref name=loudness>[http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-levelchange.htm Loudness level gain volume perception dB factor volume conversion ...]</ref> .

	; How much more coverage will I get?		; How much more coverage will I get?
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	: No		: No
	*Doubling the power (+3 dB)is '''not''' twice as loud.		*Doubling the power (+3 dB)is '''not''' twice as loud.
	*A non-exact rule-of-thumb is that every 10 dB increase is a doubling of perceived loudness. <ref>~~[http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-levelchange.htm Loudness level gain volume perception dB factor volume conversion ...]~~</ref>		*A non-exact rule-of-thumb is that every 10 dB increase is a doubling of perceived loudness. <ref name=loudness></ref>

	;Takeaways		;Takeaways

ST: light editing and formatting

2019-03-27T14:35:30Z

light editing and formatting

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	~~How much gain do you~~ get ~~when you run two~~ {{L1}} systems ~~with~~ the ~~same source~~.		<div style="max-width:800px">
			;What is the benefit of using two {{L1}} systems over one?
			: You will get more coverage (based on the distance between the {{L1}} systems) and an increase in loudness (but not double the loudness).

	~~<!--This is an excerpt~~ from ~~a recent post from Ken-at-Bose~~. He will ~~be updating this soon~~. ~~-->~~		; How much more coverage will I get?
			: The increased coverage will be the result of the distance between the two systems. For example, if you place them twenty feet apart in the horizontal plane, you will get twenty feet more coverage from side to side. You will also increase the overall sound level by +3 dB. Your projection straight ahead may improve but that is harder to predict as the distances increases.

	~~:The most~~ you ~~can ever~~ get ~~from putting~~ two ~~sources fed by~~ the same ~~signal together is 6 dB. The reason~~? ~~sound waves add in space through the principle of [https~~:~~//www.acs.psu.edu/drussell/demos/superposition/superposition.html superposition]. If the waves from two sources perfectly add, you get twice the amplitude, which is 6~~ dB~~. <!-- Now, I've been proven wrong on a number of occasions, but if that happens on this occasion, Alan, the sound engineer you've been talking to is going to get a Nobel Prize. -->~~		; How much gain do you get when you run two {{L1}} systems with the same source?
			: Short answer +3 dB

	:The ~~problem is that to~~ get ~~the full 6 dB the~~ two sources ~~have to be spaced very closely~~ together ~~relative to a wavelength of sound. at 50 Hz, where the wavelength of sound~~ is ~~about 20' (about 7 meters) that's pretty easy to do~~. ~~Massing your B1 bass modules is done for this~~ reason ~~-- to get~~ the ~~6 dB per doubling~~ of ~~B1 systems~~. ~~But at 1~~,~~000 Hz, where the wavelengths are 1' (about 30 cm)~~ you ~~just can't do~~ get ~~L1 speakers close enough. As a result~~, ~~you get something less than~~ 6 dB ~~because at some angles instead of the sound waves constructively adding they will destructively cancel (one will be partly or completely out of phase with the other)~~.		; +6 dB in theory
			The most you can ever get from putting two sources fed by the same signal together is +6 dB. The reason?
			* Sound waves add in space through the principle of [https://www.acs.psu.edu/drussell/demos/superposition/superposition.html superposition]. If the waves from two sources perfectly add, you get twice the amplitude, which is +6 dB.

	~~:Once you separate~~ the sources ~~by several or more wavelengths~~, the ~~summations and cancellations are so numerous and so complex~~ that ~~we say the two sources are essentially uncorrelated (not strictly true, but~~ for the ~~purposes~~ of ~~this argument~~, ~~a very~~ close ~~approximation~~.~~) When two sources are uncorrelated the only thing~~ you ~~can count on is that the total amount~~ of ~~acoustic power going into~~ the ~~room~~ will be ~~doubled. Doubling~~ the ~~power is 3 dB~~.		* To get the full +6 dB the two sources have to be spaced very closely together relative to a wavelength of sound. at 50 Hz, where the wavelength of sound is about 20' (about 7 meters) that's pretty easy to do. Massing your B1 bass modules is done for this reason -- to get the 6 dB per doubling of B1 systems. But at 1,000 Hz, where the wavelengths are 12 inches (about 30 cm) you just can't do get L1 speakers close enough. As a result, you get something less than 6 dB because at some angles instead of the sound waves constructively adding they will destructively cancel (one will be partly or completely out of phase with the other).

	:~~So what we~~'~~ve said~~ is		; +3 dB in practice
	# Put ~~B1s~~ together if you can because they'll give you an honest 6 dB per doubling of ~~B1 systems;~~		Once you separate the sources by several or more wavelengths, the summations and cancellations are so numerous and so complex that we say the two sources are essentially uncorrelated (not strictly true, but for the purposes of this argument, a very close approximation.) When two sources are uncorrelated the only thing you can count on is that the total amount of acoustic power going into the room will be doubled. Doubling the power is +3 dB.

			; Is +3 dB twice as loud?
			: No
			*Doubling the power (+3 dB)is '''not''' twice as loud.
			*A non-exact rule-of-thumb is that every 10 dB increase is a doubling of perceived loudness. <ref>[http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-levelchange.htm Loudness level gain volume perception dB factor volume conversion ...]</ref>

			;Takeaways
			# Put bass modules together if you can because they'll give you an honest 6 dB per doubling of bass modules/
	# If you are sending a mono or stereo signal to spaced L1 systems, try to space them 20 feet (7 meters) or more if you can because this will minimize any audible cancellations.		# If you are sending a mono or stereo signal to spaced L1 systems, try to space them 20 feet (7 meters) or more if you can because this will minimize any audible cancellations.

			</div>
			----
	<!--		<!--
	:~~Alan, you've got enough spacing of your L1 systems and so I really don't see any problem with destructive interference~~. ~~On the other hand, given the maximum benefit in level is only 3 dB, and you are somewhat reducing the clarity and accuracy of localization, I question the benefit~~. ~~Your willingness to experiment is~~ a ~~good ingredient.~~		[http://bose.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/778102955/m/108102942?r=879106073#879106073 Source: Ken-at-Bose]

	:~~I'm going to work next week on a Wiki article on this subject, someplace where I can try to put these thoughts together where they can be found time and time again.~~
	-->		-->
	~~[http://bose.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/778102955/m/108102942?r=879106073#879106073 Source: Ken-at-Bose]~~
	<noinclude>		<noinclude>
	[[Category:L1]]		[[Category:L1]]

ST at 13:53, 27 March 2019

2019-03-27T13:53:09Z

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	[http://bose.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/778102955/m/108102942?r=879106073#879106073 Source: Ken-at-Bose]		[http://bose.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/778102955/m/108102942?r=879106073#879106073 Source: Ken-at-Bose]
	<noinclude>		<noinclude>
	[[Category:L1]		[[Category:L1]]
	[[Category:Ken~~-at-Bose~~]]		[[Category:Ken Jacob]]
	[[Category:Acoustics]]		[[Category:Acoustics]]
			[[Category:Dual Mono]]
	</noinclude>		</noinclude>

ST: Created page with "How much gain do you get when you run two {{L1}} systems with the same source. ..."

2019-03-27T13:51:21Z

Created page with "How much gain do you get when you run two {{L1}} systems with the same source. ..."

New page

How much gain do you get when you run two {{L1}} systems with the same source.



:The most you can ever get from putting two sources fed by the same signal together is 6 dB. The reason? sound waves add in space through the principle of [https://www.acs.psu.edu/drussell/demos/superposition/superposition.html superposition]. If the waves from two sources perfectly add, you get twice the amplitude, which is 6 dB. 

:The problem is that to get the full 6 dB the two sources have to be spaced very closely together relative to a wavelength of sound. at 50 Hz, where the wavelength of sound is about 20' (about 7 meters) that's pretty easy to do. Massing your B1 bass modules is done for this reason -- to get the 6 dB per doubling of B1 systems. But at 1,000 Hz, where the wavelengths are 1' (about 30 cm) you just can't do get L1 speakers close enough. As a result, you get something less than 6 dB because at some angles instead of the sound waves constructively adding they will destructively cancel (one will be partly or completely out of phase with the other).

:Once you separate the sources by several or more wavelengths, the summations and cancellations are so numerous and so complex that we say the two sources are essentially uncorrelated (not strictly true, but for the purposes of this argument, a very close approximation.) When two sources are uncorrelated the only thing you can count on is that the total amount of acoustic power going into the room will be doubled. Doubling the power is 3 dB.

:So what we've said is
# Put B1s together if you can because they'll give you an honest 6 dB per doubling of B1 systems;
# If you are sending a mono or stereo signal to spaced L1 systems, try to space them 20 feet (7 meters) or more if you can because this will minimize any audible cancellations.


[http://bose.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/778102955/m/108102942?r=879106073#879106073 Source: Ken-at-Bose]
<noinclude>
[[Category:L1]
[[Category:Ken-at-Bose]]
[[Category:Acoustics]]
</noinclude>